Good evening! We found a laouto in the loft, in reasonably good condition and without strings, inside a leather case. It belonged to my great-grandfather, who came from Bursa. Inside, the instrument has a label that says “Instrument workshop of Panigyri Panagi Kremydarou, Piraeus”! I can’t take a photo of the label because the sound hole is covered with carved wood. There is a carved lion on the top of the neck! Where could I take it to have it examined? I don’t play the laouto, although I do play the guitar and tzoura purely as a hobby! I’d like to find out its true value so I can decide what to do with it! Many thanks in advance!
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Good evening to you.
Take lots of different photos (including close-ups of the details).
It is of historical value, and if you sell it, you’ll get good money for it, depending on its condition.
You’ll get €2,000 just for the sign alone — and more!
Take some photos and upload them.
If you don’t know how, ask for help. You’ll find someone.
PS
I saw that you list the lute as your instrument (on your profile) — your great-grandfather’s!
I wouldn’t sell it…
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Should I upload photos here on the forum?
Yes, you upload them here. It’s a continuation of your “listing.”
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I’m very pleased that you recognise its value and have asked in the right place. Besides being a family heirloom, it is also an instrument of great historical value. There are articles and books about the Panagis family; Panigyris was the father of the Panagis brothers.
There are particular instrument makers with the knowledge and experience to restore such an instrument properly. If you are in Athens, there are Michalis Mountakis, Nikos Fronimopoulos and Dimitris Vergetis, while in Thessaloniki there is Tasos Theodorakis.
By Panagiotis Kagiafas, a forum member:
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It’s very beautiful, and I wouldn’t want it to fall into disrepair! Thank you for the information!
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And also the knowledge and experience to provide a valuation.
Not that a valuation means that’s how much you’ll get if you sell it—these things are fluid. But if you know that the instrument, in its current condition, is valued at X euros and that proper maintenance and restoration would cost Y euros, you have a better picture.
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It’s a Panigiris lute, so it has a certain rarity. Bear in mind that a new lute by a renowned instrument maker usually costs thousands.
From what little can be seen, though, it needs restoring! Depending on the instrument maker and the work involved, restoration can cost hundreds, or even over a thousand. Naturally, a restored Panagis lute also has additional value. In any case, it looks like a very beautiful, well-made instrument! It has a lovely soundboard, a lion’s head, marquetry on the fingerboard and a moustache bridge, all made from good-quality wood. The ribs are in three colours with ornate purfling. Once restored, someone could pay quite a lot for it. It’s worth it. Let’s hope it sounds good too.
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Well done for respecting it in any case.
Back when it was made, before the war, Piraeus and Drapetsona had a great many instrument makers producing guitars, bouzoukis and mandolins—and in the area, Panagis Panigyris probably made more laouta than anyone else.
It certainly looks well played! Did your great-grandfather play folk music?
This is a wonderful opportunity to have it restored and play it from time to time. Since you “have dealings” with guitars and tzouras, I’m sure it will delight you.
If you’re looking for an instrument restorer and maker, I can wholeheartedly recommend Mr Nikos Fronimopoulos in Legrena.
You’re lucky in any case!
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Thank you very much! My great-grandfather played the lute, but I remember him mostly singing — he was an excellent cantor! Today I’m going to Mr Tsakirian in Athens to have him look at it!
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Karolos Tsakirian? That’s a good choice too.
Do you have any memories, photographs or other historical objects from your grandfather?
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My aunt has some photographs! We don’t have anything else of value; as for the lute, I don’t know how she managed to save it!
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Panigyris Panagis — the instrument is genuine! You can find information about Panigyris Panagis everywhere! One of the foremost craftsmen of all time, and the father of the historic instrument makers, the Panagis brothers. I believe the people best qualified to examine it and tell you a great deal are:
Piraeus: Minas Mastroleon
Athens: Michalis Mountakis, Takis Vergetis
Thessaloniki: Pantelis Agkistriotis
I own many old instruments of a similar calibre and have been playing lutes for over 30 years. I am also a very active musician. I have no vested interest and am speaking based on my knowledge and experience. If it goes anywhere else, it may even be ruined.
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Although the craftsmen mentioned are indeed renowned and excellent, you’re exaggerating and underestimating many other outstanding restorers by suggesting that they’ll be ruined if they go elsewhere! And at better prices, too!
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Unfortunately, we’ve seen quite a few historic instruments being ruined, either to save money or because of personal connections with craftsmen or carpenters… Of course, everyone is entitled to their preferences and disagreements, but generally speaking, when it comes to instruments this old and well made, there are only certain people who are qualified to work on them.
Earlier, I mentioned the people I have personal experience of or specific examples of. I should add that I’ve also heard good things about Christos Tsolis. I haven’t heard of Mastroleon or Agkistrotis before (though that doesn’t necessarily mean anything).
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Tsolis has repaired countless old ones! Quite right. Also, isn’t he the gentleman who made lutes at Zoto?
I forgot Nikos Fronimopoulos from Legrena as well! My friend, when you’re talking about instruments like these, I don’t think money plays the primary role! First of all, you want the instrument to remain as it was, without changes and without any aesthetic or tonal alteration! We’ve all been through this, and we speak from our own experiences! Also, let’s not confuse lutes with other instruments such as bouzoukis or guitars. Each instrument is a completely different story! As it happens, I know many lute collectors in Greece (and if not all of them, then most of those with lutes by the following makers: Venios, Mourtzinos, Veloudios, Man. Kopeliadis, Pan. Panagis, Gombakis, the Stathopoulos family, Graitsis, the Panagis brothers and many others), and they all go to the places I mentioned earlier! Have a good week, everyone!
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My friend, I’m not questioning the value of the above. It’s just that sometimes money is an issue too, and that doesn’t mean that whoever else takes it on will ruin it! Of course, I understand what you mean.
Anyway, the laouto has gone in for repairs to (Karolos?) Tsakirian, who I consider to be a respectable choice. Let’s not fill the thread with our own disagreements or general discussion; we’re waiting for the good news from the laouto’s restoration!
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Good evening! I took the laouto to Mr Tsakirian, who said that it is a fine instrument and only needs a few minor repairs to bring it back to its former condition! He asked me for €500 to fix it, which seemed like a very reasonable amount! However, I’ve decided to give it to someone who knows about these instruments, as it is, without repairs, because I’m never going to learn to play the laouto and it would be a shame for it to remain hanging on the wall! If anyone is interested, please send me a message — serious offers only, please. Thank you very much!
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