You’re right, Pericles; that’s the crux of it:
And just mentioning “elderly” is enough for me, and I have no doubts, because similar examples have happened to me too!!! I’m elderly myself now, at 65… Technically, then, yes… the issue of self-awareness and biological incapacity now also comes into play, as does each person’s personal responsibility—or irresponsibility—in understanding that they are “only capable of handling the house and their friends”… However, when it comes to each of our “backgrounds”, saying it is one thing, while supporting your past collaborations with audiovisual material is another! So, a mountebank who was supposedly—demonstrably—in large or smaller laïkó-rebétiko groups in the past DOES NOT EXIST, even if they are 70 or even 75 years old today!! Anyone can say whatever they like, but once they pick up the “beggar’s stick”, they are exposed!
Aesthetics in art is a personal matter, whether you’re the “artist” or the client! Above all, it’s a matter of the marketing of the mafia that controls things. For years now, the public—most of it, at least—has usually been manipulated into listening to and watching rubbish and trash first and foremost, especially young people! Those who “slip through the net” have always made the difference! The bad thing is that people who know nothing about music and other arts have the right to criticise, my friend…
1 Like
I’ll say it again: I wrote it solely in relation to experience. For no other reason.
You’re right! Likewise, there are many older people who teach young folk-instrument players ethos, dignity and, as much as they can, technique—and above all, RESPECT for the tradition and compositions of the giants of our folk and rebetiko heritage! There will always be sad exceptions! Let the rest of us identify and condemn them….
1 Like
I agree with this, and it is the real reason why day-wages end up exactly where they want to direct them.
Unfortunately, I disagree with this. Anyone can offer criticism because we live in a free society, and anyone who puts themselves in the public eye will inevitably be judged.
Now, how much weight each person’s criticism carries depends on how much weight we — or each artist — choose to give it. You need a strong stomach to put yourself out there.
Music is for everyone; it is not for an elite few initiated people.
4 Likes
The best-paid gigs, though, were at the doghouse nightclubs…
Here I can only agree, especially when it comes to the folk music we’re discussing.
There is “free” criticism, full of personal opinions and judgements based on emotion, our own personal bubble and our own aesthetic. In short, opinions of the pub-and-gossip variety.
There are well-founded critiques, with arguments, scientific substantiation, insight and knowledge, from people of integrity and recognised merit.
So it isn’t only about the weight that we or the artist give it…
In general, though, we do not disagree.
7 Likes
You’ve just listed a set of criteria for weighing up a review. They may not fit everyone exactly, but yes, that is precisely what I meant.
I’m not always opposed to coffee-shop-style opinions in general. Gossip has its charm.
1 Like
And precisely because some people wanted to promote them (and succeeded), for their own reasons, of course.
2 Likes
Well, let’s not make it look as though there’s some dark conspiracy going on. What reasons? Everyone is trying to earn more while spending less; that’s all. In principle, it’s a perfectly legitimate aim (I mean, find me someone who’s trying to do the opposite!). If circumstances had somehow conspired to make experimental jazz appeal to the general public, the place would be crawling with venues offering experimental jazz in various cheapened versions, and we’d be saying exactly what we say about the skylades!
I remember a venue owner I used to play for (he’d run a skyladiko for years, and one year had the unfortunate idea of turning it into a rembetadiko, driving away most of his old clientele and—unfortunately—keeping the rest!) who used the characteristic expression “more entertaining!” to mean that we should play faster. And yes, the guy had a thoroughly pimp-like view of music, but if he had actually established that people enjoyed the faster version, why not? It would have been unrealistic to say, “No, the 1933 recording is slow”: and what’s that to us, mate—have we come to a conference or a bouzoukia club?
1 Like
I agree too. Music that doesn’t move anyone who isn’t a musician or musicologist has simply failed. I’ve been to gigs where almost the entire audience were musicians, and I always find myself thinking: what does society gain from this musical evening?
(Although, of course, it is an honour for a musician when their colleagues come to hear them. But it would be nice if a few ordinary people came too, otherwise…!)
Are you talking, for example, about experimental music concerts? The role of traditional/folk music is different from that of original musical creation (I learned that from you here on the forum).
A few drummers turned up as well — the ones who hang out with musicians 
2 Likes
However you look at it: sometimes someone has the original, experimental idea of engaging with a music that, in another place and time, functioned as a living tradition, but here and now needs to be rediscovered. Supposedly, people go to see what this tradition might have to say to us. But sometimes the audience consisted entirely of musicians!
There are some guitar concerts that we guitarists go to in order to see what instruments the musician has, what shape their nails are, how they file them, etc. 
3 Likes
No, the clarinets..
Anyway, honestly, this conversation no longer makes any sense, gentlemen. Recently, there was another discussion about this on Facebook. A gentleman, a professional for 40 years, was blaming the cheap hacks, the youngsters, the untalented ones, saying that they were stealing his day rate. And underneath, loads of comments: no, it’s his fault; no, it’s that person’s fault—and on and on the arguments went. Essentially, we’re arguing among ourselves over the crumbs they leave for us to eat. While we all know who the real culprit—or culprits—are, no one dares mention them. Why? Perhaps because ordinary people themselves give them the power to carry on their “godly” work for so many years?
1 Like
As long as there is a Ministry of Culture and corrupt cultural organisations, then yes, we are talking about a conspiracy too. It’s not just about profit; power is involved somewhere in all this. Everyone’s problem is financial hardship. I believe there were students and various other hobbyists in the past too, earning lower day wages and doing it for the enjoyment of it, but it didn’t seem as though they were “snatching” from the scraps or anything like that. In fact, I believe we generally have better players now than we did ten years ago, as far as amateur hobbyists who work for a living are concerned. Anyway, there are plenty of valid points, but good luck finding them…
1 Like
Who, then?
Go on, tell us everything!
Let all our members know.
So they can protect themselves, that is.
Yes, I understand what you’re saying. But if the adaptations are firmly rooted in tradition, there’s plenty of people dancing underneath!